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Slice is Gone (for the moment)
  • After coming under increasing pressure from various blogs (read the recent history here), Siice of Laodicea has officially closed up shop. Normally I would consider this cause to celebrate, but in this case Ingrid has already promised she’ll be back. True to form, Ingrid isn’t just closing up shop, she’s making sure the entire thing disappears down the memory hole. All the wild accusations and inaccurate criticism, the even wilder [...]
    • Sealing the Slice Echo-Chamber
  • About two weeks ago, I had an argument (see the comment thread) with Jim Bublitz about comment practices over at Slice of Laodicea. For those who aren’t interested in reading the whole thing, here’s what happened. I left three comments over at Slice over a period of a week. When the first one never appeared on the site, I e-mailed Ingrid, the owner, and asked her why? She explained that [...]
    • Was Jesus Preaching People Focused?
  • Over at Slice of Laodicea, they continue the Rick Warren bashing. Today they have a post called The Seeker Sensitive Half Message, which supposedly lays bare the scandalous outrage of seeker-sensitive preaching. The post itself is a summary of this article. There are many things in the article that bother me and strike me as “off.” For instance, the author consistently criticizes seeker-sensitive churches as being “man-centered” rather than God [...]
    • SLICE on Alcohol, Tobacco and What Makes a Christian
  • A recent post over at Slice of Laodicea titled “On Hookahs, Emergents and Booze Aplenty” caught my attention a couple days ago. It begins by bemoaning the use of alcohol by students attending Christian colleges and seminaries, which I agree could be of concern (though I don’t know if all students who attend Christian schools of higher education and who also drink should be called “drunken sots” as they are [...]
    • 3 Card Monty Over at Slice of Laodicea
  • 3 Card Monte is one of those games that street hustlers play in which they tell a person to keep his/her eye on the “money card” while moving it around on a table with two other cards. Basically, the trick is to misdirect the attention of the audience (the mark) so that while they are focused in one direction the money card is moving in the other direction. In the [...]
    • Summing Up the Last Two Weeks
  • About two months ago I wrote a post critical of Slice of Laodicea. That resulted in a rather heated discussion with Jim Bublitz, one of their authors. Since then I have written about them several times. The discussion eventually even made it (obliquely) into a Slicecast (SOL’s podcast). Nearly two weeks ago, my co-blogger Scott wrote a post directly addressed to one of the authors at Slice (Ken Silva) based [...]
    • Discernment Gone WILD!!!
  • subtitle: Discernment Is as Discernment Does (**NOTE** – Less than 18 hours after Ingrid published the original article and less than 10 hours after I put up this post, Ingrid took down the original piece. Though I’m sure that her post will live on in the world wide web of yesteryear (the internet archives), I am glad that I was able to capture at least portions of her complaint and [...]
    • Slice of Laodicea Jumps the Shark
  • Last week, Slice of Laodicea wrote a post comparing the Catholic church to the “beast” of revelation. Andy Jackson of SmartChristian sent out an e-mail notifying a few bloggers about this and asking them to comment. Tim Challies wrote a post which essentially argued there may be something to this claim. In response, I and several others including Joe Carter at Evangelical Outpost responded that this was ridiculous. Slice of [...]
    • A Small “SLICE” of Hypocricy
  • On SLICE today, one of Ingrid’s posts (interestingly enough) quotes a 4th century Orthodox hymn. I say “interestingly enough” because in any other context Ingrid and her cronies are quick to condemn Catholics and those with Catholic-like beliefs to the fires of Hell (or the condemnations of “Reverend Ken,” whichever comes first). The Orthdox Churches (Egyptian/Coptic, Russian, Armenian, etc) share a wide number of similarities with the much wider-reaching Catholic [...]

    • Meet the New Slice…

    John on January 9, 2007 at 8:31 pm

    My apologies if someone else used that headline. It sounded familiar but I went with it anyway.

    Last week, Slice of Laodicea disappeared. On Monday, Ingrid and her spiritual Scooby gang launched their new site Christian Research Net.

    As predicted, the new site does not allow comments. Also as predicted, Ken Silva and Steve Camp are still in the lineup along with Ingrid and Chris P. There was one surprise though. Posts on the site are now uncredited to any particular author. How weird is that for a group blog?

    Chris Rosenburg (is he new?) actually added his name to the bottom of one of his posts, but the rest are simply there. I guess the idea is that when you read something irresponsible or outrageous, you won’t know who to blame. Of course you can still tell that Ken is the one sending readers over to Apprising Ministries for the latest missive, only now he has to refer to himself in the third person. That’s just silly guys.

    So, to sum up, the new Slice has:

    • The same contributors (plus Chris R. and Dwanya Litz…?)
    • The same outlook
    • The same mission statement

    On the other hand differences include:

    • A new, generic name
    • A bland (bordering on unattractive) new design (the previous design by Tim Challies was nice)
    • A complete lack of accountability (no comments or attribution of posts)

    Well, that’s certainly a good plan.

    Update: Former Slice contributor Jim Bublitz gets in a few Parthian shots on the critics and suggests Slice was a fairytale with Ingrid as Frodo (I’m sort of serious, go look).

    Chris at Sliced Laodicea has some thoughts and also asks for suggestions for a new domain name for his site. Well, the new Slice is called Christian Research Net and given how they talk about other believers how about Christian Besmirch Net. (christianbesmirchnetwork.com is available)

    Also talking about this: Monday Morning Insight.

    Category: Religion & Faith |

    23 Comments

    1. iggy

      It just goes to show that they really do not care to me held accountable for anything. This way if someone says something and “gets in trouble” they can go, “uhhh, we don’t know who wrote that.” and continue without any repercussions.

      Sad… in their attempt to berate others into coming back to the fold, they isolate themselves further and become less and less accountable to anyone… except each other for all that is worth.

      Blessings,
      iggy

      January 9, 2007 @ 11:11 pm
    2. Jon Daley

      What’s ironic is that someone on the “old slice” recently complained about anonymous posting, and how people should claim their words, etc., etc.

      Maybe they are still working on the template, and will have the author names soon.

      January 10, 2007 @ 4:18 am
    3. Pastor Ken Silva

      Looks like our respect for each others work is mutual. ;-)

      January 10, 2007 @ 4:28 am
    4. SmartChristian.com » Blog Archive »

      [...] The same old, warn-out Laodiceans in different clothing. [...]

      January 10, 2007 @ 5:55 am
    5. Neil

      I have to confess that I enjoy reading Slice, while at the same time I appreciate your critiques. I think they provide a valuable service, but they can be a little shrill at times. I’m curious to see if this is their final model for the web site or if they’ll be tweaking it. I guess I don’t see much of a difference so far.

      January 10, 2007 @ 6:13 am
    6. Sliced Laodicea » Quick Thoughts on ‘Slice’ Reborn as CRN

      [...] Meanwhile, here’s a good one from John at Verum Serum, and if you can think of any ideas for a cool new domain name, send them to slicedlaodicea @t earthlink dot net. [...]

      January 10, 2007 @ 7:45 am
    7. Mike

      As a quick note, the posts are not anonymous if you subscribe to the RSS feed (at least in my safari feed)…it lists the poster right beside the title…helpful for me, anyway. Don’t know why they didn’t include it in the actual post instead of just RSS.

      Mike

      January 10, 2007 @ 8:21 am
    8. John

      Ken,

      I honestly don’t get what you guys are doing. If the point was to provide resources, why shut down the old site with 18 months worth of stories? Now it’s all gone.

      Is this just an attempt to escape the critics? I honestly don’t get how this benefits Ingrid or anyone else.

      January 10, 2007 @ 8:43 am
    9. amy

      Ken,
      Off-topic, but . . .just want to say I’m sorry about your health (feet) problems.

      January 10, 2007 @ 8:49 am
    10. Tim (t.q.o.)

      Hmmm, Christian Research… I’m sorry Ken, but if Dr. Martin wasn’t already rolling over in his grave for your misrepresentation of him, he must be now that you have stolen the name of his highly respected Institute.

      January 10, 2007 @ 11:17 pm
    11. iggy

      The whole thing seems to prove what I discerned a long time ago about these people…

      “selfish ambition” and all that goes with it on the way to the top… (or gutter)

      Galatians 5:19-21 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

      Dr. Martin (who really was not a “Dr” but had that as a nickname until he was given an honorary certificate) was a man of grace… who one of the things I learned from his show and books was honesty… If you don’t know the answer, say so… and then go look it up. Yet Dr. Martin was a man of grace, compassion, mercy and love.. he loved the people he wrote about in Kingdom of the Cults… he had a true heart for the lost… I don’t see this in Ken, Ingred or any of the other cohorts of “selfish ambition”.

      They claim we hate, and we do not… the bear false witness and slap each other on the back in celebration! There is a local person here in Billings who wrote the “open letter to Frank Page” who has lied about me… he claims I was threatening to sue the college he worked at and I never did, he claims my ordination is a fraud… he is a liar and a slanderer and Ken supports him it it…

      So beware… “selfish ambition” to the point of stealing and defaming Walter Martin’s good name.

      Beware of these people…

      Blessings,
      iggy

      January 11, 2007 @ 8:52 am
    12. Pastor Ken Silva

      Iggy,

      You said:

      Dr. Martin (who really was not a “Dr” but had that as a nickname until he was given an honorary certificate)

      I’m afraid you’re wrong on a couple of counts. 1) I have not said any of those things about you. I don’t know you my “support” of Phil Perkins was in other matters. I reserve judgment re. the rest.

      And Dr. Walter Martin’s doctorate was an earned degree and as a matter of fact he held four earned degrees. :-)

      January 12, 2007 @ 5:26 am
    13. john

      There’s already a parody site up at http://www.christianresearchnetworks.com. (Formerly sliceolaodicea.com)

      January 12, 2007 @ 5:36 am
    14. John

      According to Wikipedia (which is sometimes wrong):

      In 1956 he received a Master of Arts degree by coursework in religious education at New York University. Martin then proceeded as a candidate for the Doctor of Education degree at New York University but did not fulfill all the requisite work to be awarded the degree. He subsequently obtained a Ph.D. in 1976 from California Coast University…

      A large part of this controversy stems from his use of the title “Doctor” long before it was awarded to him, and even before the founding of the correspondence school which made the award. California Coast University was founded in 1973 under the name “California Western University”, but lost a name-infringement suit in 1981. The school was identified as a diploma mill in official GAO Special Investigations Report (GAO-04-1096T – page 4) which stated that the school provided degrees upon payment of a flat fee. It has since become accredited to award undergraduate degrees, and offers no theological degrees whatsoever.

      It sounds to me like the 4th degree was extremely questionable. That said, he was undoubtedly an expert on cults. I couldn’t help but notice this bit, also from Wikipedia:

      He was criticised by some fundamentalist Protestants for…his refusal to classify the Roman Catholic church as a “cult”.

      I wish Ken and the other Slice writers would follow his example. Instead, we had posts suggesting the Pope might be the beast of revelation.

      January 12, 2007 @ 8:48 am
    15. Pastor Ken Silva

      Dr. Martin refused:

      to classify the Roman Catholic church as a “cult”.

      I certainly don’t fault him. I’m not a fundamentalist, and it isn’t a cult. As Dr. John MacArthur pointed out: “It’s another religion enturely.”

      January 12, 2007 @ 9:44 am
    16. iggy

      Ken,
      We both agree that Walter Martin was a great man and did some great things… yet the record is a bit sketchy on him…

      I do not wish to malign his ministry or what he accomplished, but he did call himself “Dr.” well before he earned the degree… he also claimed to be ordained by the SBC and the record shows that a bit sketchy also… again as far as his “earned doctorate” it was from a school that was non accredited.

      If you want some research to do on this I recommend this site…

      http://www.lightplanet.com/response/martin.htm

      Again, I too gained much insight and learned much about cults and the bible through his ministry… yet truth is truth… and even our heroes can be a bit tarnished… but lets be real about it.

      BTW, as far as your education, I am very much like you in my education… Phil Perkins attacked me about that also… that I was not “educated properly to be ordained”… have you really read his website? He denys Jesus is literally “the way, the truth, the life” his research is very poor and he misquotes and twists things more that a pretzle maker… You should be very careful who you align yourself with… slanderers will not inherit the Kingdom… think they are listed right with those hated homosexuals of yours.

      Blessings,
      iggy

      January 12, 2007 @ 10:18 am
    17. Scott

      Ken,

      There you go with your word games and semantic tap-dancing. The point was made that Walter Martin never classified Catholicism as a “cult.” Your response is to agree that it isn’t a “cult,” but then you want to say that it is “another religion entirely”… meaning that, since it is another religion entirely, members of the Catholic Church aren’t Christian and thus aren’t saved.

      Come on, Ken. Try not to be so obvious with your awkward attempt at verbal slight-of-hand. It is visible from a mile away.

      Apparently, Walter Martin (the guy that you try to link yourself to as often as possible in order to boost your own credibility), never classified Catholicism as “not Christian” (not a cult and not a different religion entirely). In the times that I saw him speak (6 or 7 times over 5 years), I remember hearing him address this topic at least two or three times. He seemed to indicate that in his opinion members of the Catholic Church could be fellow believers in Christ, though he did acknowledge that, just as people in protestant denominations can and do have problem areas with their beliefs, so too can Catholics.

      Now perhaps he changed his position in later years. Can you point to some documentation that illustrates that change?

      If you believe that he was wrong on this issue, that is just fine. In fact, it would be a perfect illustration of how brothers in Christ can disagree on some fairly large issues and still be fellow believers.

      But of course, that could put you in an awkward position.

      If you disagree with the man you like to call your “mentor” (though I’ve never been clear on the actual relationship you had with Dr. Martin), then you have disagreed with the man whose words and ideas you treat as completely authoritative. This ability to “agree to disagree” would somewhat undermine many of your arguments against the men you attempt to crucify on a regular basis (Bell, Warren, etc) because it would open the door to the possibility that believers can have some significant disagreements and still stand within the Grace and Redemption of Christ.

      And if you agree with your “mentor,” then you run the risk of upsetting the rest of the “gang” over at Slice/Christian Research Network.

      Thus I begin to understand your little “not a cult but a different religion” tapdance.

      January 12, 2007 @ 10:40 am
    18. amy

      John,
      Regarding Jim Bublitz’ piece, I feel that a figure is missing. Isn’t there a figure in Lord of the Rings who would correspond to someone legitimately instructing “the servant girl?” Gandalf, perhaps? I suggest that Jim add to the piece and discuss who “Gandalf” could be – who is able to give God-honoring criticisms and suggestions to SLICE and have them considered? Or is it a case of “No Gandalfs allowed”?

      January 12, 2007 @ 10:44 am
    19. John

      John MacArthur has some good things to say sometimes. That isn’t one of them.

      January 12, 2007 @ 11:07 am
    20. Chris L.

      Scott,

      According to the radio/podcast inverview with Ken a couple weeks back (and Ken can correct me if I am wrong on this, I am sure), his study under Dr. Martin began when he listened to a number of Martin’s audio tapes in 1992.

      According to wikipedia, which has been known to be wrong, Dr. Martin died in 1989.

      January 12, 2007 @ 11:22 am
    21. Pastor Ken Silva

      Dr. Martin referred to Roman Catholicism as “apostate.” See -”Has the Roman Catholic Church Really Changed”:
      http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/10/has_the_roman_c_1.html

      It’s on the audio series referenced within that piece: “Now; as Christians, what ought our attitude to be [concerning Roman Catholicism]? It ought to be an attitude of gratitude; and attitude of joy, because God has delivered us from this system into the glorious liberty of the sons of God. We are not descendants of this papacy, nor do we wish to be…”

      “We [who are Christian] reject a corrupt church; a backslidden church; an apostate church… Peter is not the first pope, nor does [this office even exist, and the Pope of Rome does not] have the power to legislate for Christians…” Dr. Martin concludes – “I think it is time to realize that [Romanism]…is the kind of leadership we do not wish to follow, and we [need] to discourage others from following [the Roman Catholic Church].”

      Re:

      his study under Dr. Martin began when he listened to a number of Martin’s audio tapes in 1992.

      Certainly not misleading when I have been more than upfront about my not knowing the man personally. If I hadn’t mentioned this none of you would have even known it.

      And it is virtually everything he has recorded and numerous of his articles and books beginning in 1988, which I am not mistaken was a year prior to his death. :-)

      January 12, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
    22. iggy

      Scott,

      From Ken’s own site he states his relationship as:

      “I also claim Dr. Walter Martin among those who have taught me though I never knew him personally.”

      Personally I can say that about a ton of people… but I would not use that as a “credential” would you? At least not with some integrity… I mean I can say I was taught by the Apostle Paul and the Jesus Himself with that logic… yet that would be closer to truth in itself!

      Here is a link to Ken’s site where he discredits someone who does have credentials… and Ken only comes across in his own defense as very insecure…

      http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/06/it_is_intriguin.html

      Ken lashes out at anyone and everyone that he in his limited educated mind is attempting to correct him… with that and his selfish ambition to be known… (Which if he really did take time to study and interact without all the insecurity and hate language he could be something greater than a Christian Enquirer) I see that Ken really does not care who he smears, fibs, attacks, ruins, lies, or slanders as long as he sees his own self righteousness prevail.

      I know these are strong words… I do hope Ken takes them to heart… in the way they are intended and that is in hopes the scales of judgmentalism and condemnation (which if i recall a passage in Romans 8 has something to say about that! But don’t let that stop you Ken…) fall from your eyes…

      My prayer for my attackers and also for Ken and the others is only that they grow in the Grace and Knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

      Blessings,
      iggy

      January 12, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
    23. iggy

      Ken,

      I do know that this is a limited media for discussion and things read… not fully as intended… please understand I am not out to “get you” like some so ofte do with me…

      I intended that last comment with a bit of sarcasm… sprinkled with a twinkle in my eye and not as a cutting edge slice at you… (again no pun inteneded)

      I do truly hope that you do grow in the Grace and knowledge of our Lord and seek reconciliation on His terms and not your own…

      Again, I do this in peace and not to harm you or your ministry…

      Blessings,
      iggy

      January 12, 2007 @ 1:28 pm

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