Colorado Church Shootings (Updated and Bumped)
John on December 10, 2007 at 12:10 pm
Update 12/12: This will probably be my last update on this one. There’s a bit more news. First, it appears the message board I linked to below is not the same one that was discovered by 9News. However, I have reason to believe it is the same person.
The site Matt Murray posted on was run by the Association of Former Pentecostals. He posted under the name nghtmrchld26. Notice how similar that is to Chrstnghtmr, the handle he used on the site I linked below.
In any case, there is word that immediately after the first shooting, when he posted threatening notes on the website, one of the other members contacted the FBI. It was about a half hour later that the second shooting took place. Not enough time to make a difference unfortunately.
Also, I notice that the news is full of stories that the gunman killed himself. Technically that’s correct, though as this AP story notes it doesn’t change the heroism of Jeanne Assam one bit:
Matthew Murray, 24, was struck multiple times by a security officer at New Life Church Sunday, but his death was ruled a suicide, the El Paso County Coroner’s Office concluded after an autopsy.
Murray shot himself in the head, said police Sgt. Skip Arms.
Volunteer security guard Jeanne Assam shot Murray after he entered the church. Though investigators had earlier suggested he killed himself, they credited Assam’s bravery with averting a greater tragedy.
In short, Matt Murray shot himself in the head when he realized he was dead anyway. Had Assam not been there this certainly wouldn’t have been how it ended.
Update 12/11: I’m putting this update at the top because it’s a significant break in the story. 9News in Colorado has discovered internet writings by Matt Murray. According to 9News, just before the first shooting he posted the following on a website for those who have rejected their Christian upbringing:
You guys were awesome. It’s time for me to head out and teach these (expletive) a lesson. Thanks for listening and all … even though even many of you ex-Pentecostals don’t understand ……(sic) See you all on the other side, we’re leaving this nightmare behind to a better place.
Then, after the first shooting, he left another message:
You Christians brought this on yourselves…
The next part, also apparently left between the shootings, is a paraphrase of Eric Harris, the Columbine high school shooter. Murray wrote:
I’m coming for EVERYONE soon and I WILL be armed to the @#%$ teeth and I WILL shoot to kill. …God, I can’t wait till I can kill you people. Feel no remorse, no sense of shame, I don’t care if I live or die in the shoot-out. All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you … as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world.
Here is what Harris said for comparison:
I’m coming for EVERYONE soon and I WILL be armed to the f___ing teeth and I WILL shoot to kill…with their rich snobby attitude thinkin they are all high and mighty… God, I can’t wait til I can kill you people. Feel no remorse, no sense of shame. I don’t care if I live or die in the shoot-out. All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you as I can, especially a few people. Like Brooks Brown.
The 9 News article doesn’t give out the website, but it appears to be this one. This poem, posted by user Chrstnghtmr (Christian nightmare?) is mentioned in the 9 News story.
Here’s another page of writings by Chrstnghtmr. Notice that in his last post on the site dated 11/17(according to 9News the ones from the day of the shooting were removed by the site admin) he sounds delirious:
When all the crazy flashbacks of The Nightmare come flooding in, and you feel like you’re going to lose your mind and spiral into a panic attack, just say this childhood nursery rhyme:”you raped! as a child and it hurt but no one hears me, I screamed! tied down and no one listened, I feel dirty but I’m not a liar, you hurt and no one admits it, f***ed as a child” or something to that effect……..and it’ll all….get better…..
This is in keeping with the apparent reasons for his being kicked out of YWAM several years ago. A roommate from that time remember him talking to voices.
I’m no doctor, but it sounds more and more like schizophrenia.
[End update]
A Youth with a Mission training center was attacked first and two people were killed. Later that morning a gunman (possibly the same individual) walked into New Life Church in Colorado Springs and shot several people. Two teen girls, members of one family, were killed. Their father was also shot but survived.
Thanks to the quick reaction of an armed security guard, the gunman was killed before further mayhem took place.
Michelle Malkin has a rundown of the latest. Also, HotAir has a recent video update from Fox News. The gunman’s name will be released today at 2PM Pacific time.
Update: This story from the Denver Post gives a bit more:
Boyd said the security guard, a woman with a law enforcement background, and his personal bodyguard, encountered the gunman in a hallway at the church and fired on him, saving many lives.
“He had enough ammunition on him to cause a lot of damage,” Boyd said.
The security guard’s name has not yet been released.
Boyd said the gunman has no ties to the church.
“It was just absolutley random,” Boyd said. “A senseless random attack.”
Boyd said the church may have been targeted because of its size and the problems it’s had last fall, including the ousting of its former leader, Ted Haggard, because of a sex scandal.
Somehow I doubt this was a truly random act. The killer was motivated by some animus or sense of grievance. That he arrived at New Life Church with loads of ammo suggests he had a plan.
Update 11AM: Video interview of a man who was shot at New Life Church. He says at one point “This was the coolest shooting I’ve ever seen.” He doesn’t mean cool as in “wow!” he means cool as in completely cold-blooded:
Update 1PM: The shooter has been identified as Matthew Murray. This CNN story says that Murray was once involved in YWAM but had a falling out of some sort after which he sent threatening notes. The falling out appears to be 2 years ago, so it’s not like this happened recently.
This report by Ted Olson, relying on local Colorado media, says that the two teenage girls shot in the New Life parking lot had extensive involvement with YWAM and had been at the training center Murray targeted earlier in the day. Did he travel to the church looking for these girls or was finding them a coincidence?
Photos and bios of the victims at the YWAM training center are here.
Category: Atheism, Crime & the Law |
[...] The shooter’s rantings on an anti-Christian board. Remember that this was one of our children. The shadow of Eric Harris continues. Posted by: Michael Spencer @ 6:50 am | Trackback | Permalink [...]
December 11, 2007 @ 4:51 amI’ve been reading some of his posts there, and his words are chilling, like this post dated 12/7:
“Sounds like one of the Nobodies became a Somebody…sure he’s still hated by everyone, that is obvious, but at least now he’s a somebody…..and he’s left a world that didn’t give a sh** about him to begin with”
December 11, 2007 @ 8:55 amShauna,
So it sounds like he was aware of and possibly inspired by the Omaha mall shooter.
December 11, 2007 @ 11:29 amHow long do you think it’ll be before the atheist peanut gallery tries to claim it was Christianity’s fault for making this guy go crazy?
December 12, 2007 @ 10:00 amoh boy,
You mean you think it hasn’t happened already?
I just haven’t bothered to find out where it’s being said.
December 12, 2007 @ 10:25 amWoah, John…
This has nothing to do with Religion, its about this kid, that had problems, couldnt vent his angry in a proper way.. an shot up a church (well sorta)…
Im a bit gutted about it… coz theres always that what if factor.. like what i didnt close NSPP.. What if he joined, what if we could of saved him… but… i didnt so shame on me…
I know after NSPP, a few of my Extreme NSPP buddies made other sites… well so ive heard… an it wouldnt surprise me if he was in one of there groups…
Its a shame shit like this happens…
True waste of a life, (Matthew Murray, and victims)
I wanna start a new group… but then i dont…
My lifes pretty good now, an i dont wanna feel the hate an angry i once did, to relate to potentials….
Please Give me some advice John, an anyone else on VS
December 13, 2007 @ 3:59 pmTony,
First off, I don’t think you should feel responsible for what this guy did. He was angry at Christians for what he perceived as the wrongs they’d done to him. But you’re right that he chose a terrible and unhealthy way to express that anger.
I think that the group you started was a good idea but if you have a feeling telling you now is not the time to delve back into all that, I’d listen to your gut. Take some time for yourself. Figure out where you’re going first and you’ll be in a better position to help others. If you’re going to talk with people like Matt Murray, you need to be steady as a rock yourself first.
That said, it may be that helping others is what you really want to do in the long run. You may come right back to where you are now. But I think you need to have a real conviction about it. If you’re not sure, that’s a sign you need to take a break until you are sure.
December 13, 2007 @ 11:08 pmHey Tony
other than echoing what John has said, I have little else to offer. You seem to want to do something of benefit, which may well be in this field, but in the meantime why not do something helpful in a totally different way? You live in Liverpool, if I recall correctly – the Volunteer Centre in Liverpool can alway use some help, especially at Christmas. Volunteering can seriously make your life better, and give you time to think about what you want to do longer term.
December 14, 2007 @ 3:31 amHey Mate,
Soz but eventho id love to.. ive got so much on my mind right now.. its a hard time of the year an im fully booked for the next two weeks… an hell its proper stressfull..
Ill consider it after Christmas, but i cant right now..
Thanks for the link tho
Ant
December 19, 2007 @ 1:01 pmMerry Christmas, Anthony.
Or do you say Happy Christmas over there?
December 19, 2007 @ 2:10 pmWe Say, Get the Beer out! lol
Nah its both really… No ones bothered..
UK an US are pretty much the same except accents!
Anyway,
Merry Christmas John an everyone else!
i hope you guys have a great time!
Ant
December 19, 2007 @ 4:31 pmI am happy to read that you seem to be in a better place these days Tony. Merry Christmas as well.
Cheers.
December 19, 2007 @ 11:13 pmMerry Christmas Cindy!
An a happy New Year!
December 24, 2007 @ 4:08 pmWhy is this even filed under atheism? He went looking for help in a Christian church, & he was too crazy even for them. They booted him out, & he was simply mentally ill.
January 20, 2008 @ 1:26 amNow, why oh why, did they not contact the authorities? Or try to get the kid help?
Oh, I might add that I’ve post a critique of your lame efforts at criticizing atheism.
Um…Because he was an outspoken atheist.
Yes, he seems to have been. Sort of a chicken and the egg problem in my view. Was he nuts because of his beliefs or were his beliefs the result of being nuts. Either way it doesn’t pan out for atheism. And somehow I doubt you’d say the same were he a Christian who’d attacked a conference full of atheists.
Didn’t who? His parents? The group he belonged to months before the shootings? My understanding is that the parents did seek help.
I’ll pass on the rest of your critique of my lame efforts for now. Nothing personal.
January 20, 2008 @ 4:15 pmI read it, and let’s just say that K Apostate is using the word “critique” as a synonym for aggressive “rant”.
January 21, 2008 @ 2:38 pmI read it, I even typed a response, then decided I wouldn’t have the time/energy/commitment/whatever to go back and engage in a discussion with him and keep revisiting his blog, so I just deleted it.
January 21, 2008 @ 3:05 pmI almost wrote a response as well, but then I realized that it would be futile, and whatever I had to say would only become fodder for them, so I too left.
I did take note however, that if I were ever in a bad mood, and in need of venting – that might be the place to go…
January 21, 2008 @ 4:13 pmYeah, both of you guys read my mind.
January 21, 2008 @ 10:45 pmUmm…no he wasn’t. He was a mixed up kid who’d been kicked out of that particular church.
“See you on the other side” were some of his last words.
He was a mixed up homeschooled kid raised in a fundamentalist home. You figure it out.
Since he wasn’t an atheist, it doesn’t ‘pan out’ for anyone.
Well, you don’t know me well enough to throw that particular stone, bozo.
January 26, 2008 @ 1:19 amWhat, you think that I’d be cheering that sorta behavior? I wouldn’t, for your information. & you folks wonder at the vitriol you receive.
Your efforts pretty much violate Grossman’s law, which states: “Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.”
Atheism isn’t a system of beliefs, it’s not a religion, it’s simply non-belief.
“Blame the atheist.” Pshaw. 20 years ago, it was “blame the civil rights movement.” & before that, it was “blame the suffragette movement.”
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Lame it is, & lame it remains.
A horrible tragedy. My heart goes out to the families.
October 14, 2008 @ 9:03 am