Curtis Martin III and the Case for Waterboarding
John on November 14, 2009 at 9:27 pm
Remember all the discussion of waterboarding and the “ticking-clock” scenario in which a suspect has information that could save lives? Even some liberals have suggester there may be a time when the need to protect life outweighs the need to protect rights.
How about a not-so-hypothetical case right here in California:
Jashon Williams was last known to be with his mother, Zoelina Williams, 23, of Oakland, who was found beaten and fatally shot at about 4 a.m. Friday in the park, police said. A suspect in the slaying, convicted child-killer Curtis Martin III, 38, of Oakland, remained in jail today.
Jashon’s family was holding out hope that the little boy would be found but acknowledged that their fears were mounting.
“We want a miracle to happen – we just want him to be home,” Williams’ brother, Karim Toney, 28, of Oakland, said today. “But for (Martin) to kill my sister, it only makes sense that something must have happened to the baby.”
Martin has a history of violence and has been convicted of robbery, burglary and weapons charges. He pleaded no contest to voluntary manslaughter and was sentenced to 11 years in prison for the 1994 fatal beating of 3-year-old Devin Brewer of Oakland, the son of his then-girlfriend.
Curtis Martin has already beaten one child to death. Now he is almost certainly responsible for the murder of a woman and the disappearance of her 17 month old son. The boy can’t survive more than 48 hours alone, if he’s still alive that is. The only person who knows the truth is murderer and career criminal Curtis Martin III.
Do we insure the child’s death by letting Martin hide behind the law, or do we try to save the child at the expense of Martin’s health?
It’s not an easy choice, not one to take lightly. I read Hitchens’ description of waterboarding. I’m convinced. It’s no joke. It’s bringing someone to the point of drowning and then doing it again and again. But there are lots of worse fates, including letting a 17 month old starve to death or freeze to death.
But if we make this available in extreme cases, won’t it get abused? It’s not hard to imagine some really unprofessional cops getting carried away with this and using it on shoplifters for kicks. The vast majority of cops are professionals who wouldn’t go there, but there are always a few morons. It really is a slippery slope that should worry all of us.
But when I imagine that smug, child-murdering SOB sitting in jail awaiting his next meal and then I look at this little boy, Jashon Williams, who if he’s alive is an orphan thanks to Curtis Martin…
Do it professionally. Do it as humanely as possible. But make the bastard talk before it’s too late.
Category: Crime & the Law |
I cannot believe that a child killer was even let out of prison to walk the streets. A child killer should be shown no mercy. Every time I try to convince myself that man is inherently good I come across a gut wrenching case like this. It is truely a senseless crime. I pray that the little boy is found alive. Rest the woman’s soul.
November 14, 2009 @ 11:17 pmIn the name of compassion “Enhanced Interrogation” could be legally condoned if we had an honest nation wide public debate and vote on it. The left thinks that we should allow the will of the criminals to prevail and use the extreme example to prove their case against such interrogation. Waterboarding is but one example that has minimal risk to the subject and seems to produce results in most cases. An example Is one were only looking for answers to a kidnapping in which a time element was crucial to the life of the victim, even bad intelligence would do no further harm. The old canard that the victim of EI will say anything to get the tormentors to stop would quickly prove false since anything they said could quickly be checked out. The down side is that as with anything there is the potential for abuse. But that could be avoided by having “Teams” of federally licensed interrogators who would be the only ones allowed to use the techniques.
For some reason the left in this country seem to believe that the welfare of our nation is bettered by allowing evil to triumph over good when the rights of the perpetrators meet the laws of civil people. I believe they are wrong. If the method of interrogation does not permenately injure the suspect then the good out ways the bad.
November 15, 2009 @ 8:04 amA. Michelle,
My understanding (though I can’t swear to it at this point) is that Martin was out on parole when he killed the 3 year old boy. He got 12 years of which he served 6 before going back on parole. Now he has killed a mother and possibly another toddler.
Had this scenario unfolded in Iraq to an Iraqi child under the auspices of Blackwater or the US Army, liberals would be screaming for justice. As it is, I doubt MoveOn or the ACLU will second my suggestion. No politically useful angle in it for them.
November 15, 2009 @ 9:45 amThe trouble is that, although certain cases like this one are concrete, and one can be absolutely certain that this man does know where that kid is, you do have the difficulty of the presumption of innocence. This case is very exceptional, but allowing waterboarding for this would (in my opinion) be the first step on the slippery slope. It would, certainly, open the door to the waterboarding of people who were only suspects, rather than convicted criminals.
That’s a precisous part of the constitution, isn’t it?
Arguing against waterboarding this man is by no means easy on the conscience. I don’t care about Curtis Martin III’s rights or wellbeing, and its all too easy to imagine my boy in that boy’s situation. The implications for future suspects is what bothers me. Every policeman is only human, and every police force contains bad cops.
November 15, 2009 @ 11:18 amI’d get out the bolt cutters and pull this guys pants down. Then I’d ask him where the kid was. If the first answer didn’t check out, then this guys loses one of his testicles. We’d keep going until the child was found. Of course, all of what I’m saying is outlawed in our land, but in this special case, where time is of the essence, drastic measures are called for. I know I’ll get a lot of negative reaction to this post, but I care more for the baby than I do for this killer.
November 15, 2009 @ 4:14 pmThey found this precious baby today floating in the water in the marina. God bless this poor little soul and his mother. How can a person murder a 3 year old and get out in 6 years? I do not understand that. Now he has murdered two more people. This is so sick and wrong. These monsters walk amoung us. So chilling
November 15, 2009 @ 9:02 pmJim – I don’t think you’ll get negative reaction to that at all, not even from me. I felt much the same until the news came in that the poor little boy was found dead. It is truly heartbreaking, I just hope he didn’t suffer long before the end.
My only reservation is in the whole ‘certainty’ of guilt thing in other cases. In the 90s we had a number of high profile IRA convictions overturned – convictions made, mostly, on the heartfelt certainty of the investigating officers that they had found the perpetrators of appalling atrocities against civilians of all ages. I’ve mentioned on here before the non-fiction book ‘An Innocent Man’ by John Grisham, where an American Police Department treated a suspect appallingly, because they were convinced they had the murderer. As the title kind of makes clear, they were wrong.
So, for all I genuinely couldn’t care about this sicko or his treatment, and I couldn’t type the sentence “they shouldn’t waterboard him” when the boy was missing, i do still believe that guilt should be established by an independent court before any type of punishment. Cases like this make principles stick in your throat, though.
November 16, 2009 @ 1:06 amNot to be opinionated or anything like that, but part of me wants to waterboard all the people in the System that put him back on the streets. From the Judge on down…
he copped a plea to voluntary manslaughter…
damn, if I need a good lawyer I am going to ask Curtis for a referral.
November 17, 2009 @ 9:12 pm