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	<title>Comments on: Iran Hostage Crisis Day 12 &#8211; Submission</title>
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	<description>Magna est Veritas et Praevalebit</description>
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		<title>By: m in the UK</title>
		<link>http://www.verumserum.com/?p=979&#038;cpage=1#comment-34099</link>
		<dc:creator>m in the UK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh I support whole heartedly the US/UK have the right to seize &quot;third parties&quot; unlawfully trying to disrupt the rebuilding and reconcilliation process in Iraq.

I said previously in a comment on USA Today that it was a mistake not to have challenged (the murderer) Al-Sadr jnr earlier on.

I suspect he is directly responsible for US / UK troop deaths.

John I am entirely in agreement with you. The thing is, ironically The Independent is right like you say - but spins it to make it look like it&#039;s the US&#039;s fault. Since American-bashing is fashionable ... and they think they&#039;ll get extra readership if they take that angle. How cynical have we become?????

Oh I do not doubt Iran has blood on its hands in Iraq - despite not &quot;officially&quot; being a combatant there...

But these so-called peace activists here simply don&#039;t wish to know that... they have one agenda and won&#039;t acknowledge anything contrary to their own viewpoint!

I think you have done a good job in untangling the Iran-interference timeline for people John.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh I support whole heartedly the US/UK have the right to seize &#8220;third parties&#8221; unlawfully trying to disrupt the rebuilding and reconcilliation process in Iraq.</p>
<p>I said previously in a comment on USA Today that it was a mistake not to have challenged (the murderer) Al-Sadr jnr earlier on.</p>
<p>I suspect he is directly responsible for US / UK troop deaths.</p>
<p>John I am entirely in agreement with you. The thing is, ironically The Independent is right like you say &#8211; but spins it to make it look like it&#8217;s the US&#8217;s fault. Since American-bashing is fashionable &#8230; and they think they&#8217;ll get extra readership if they take that angle. How cynical have we become?????</p>
<p>Oh I do not doubt Iran has blood on its hands in Iraq &#8211; despite not &#8220;officially&#8221; being a combatant there&#8230;</p>
<p>But these so-called peace activists here simply don&#8217;t wish to know that&#8230; they have one agenda and won&#8217;t acknowledge anything contrary to their own viewpoint!</p>
<p>I think you have done a good job in untangling the Iran-interference timeline for people John.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.verumserum.com/?p=979&#038;cpage=1#comment-33938</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 16:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>m,

I&#039;ve been checking Sky News. They seem to always have the video first.

The Independent story, as bombastic as it is, may be correct on one point. The purpose of the kidnapping may indeed be to secure the release of the five &quot;diplomats&quot; seized in Irbil by the US on January 11th. Of course these guys were in Iraq to undermine the US and assist in the import of EFPs, 50 cal sniper weapons and other munitions causing serious harm to US and UK troops.

Two UK soldiers have been killed by a sniper in the last week. If he&#039;s caught, he&#039;s likely to be using a rifle purchased by Iran and smuggled into Iraq by the sort of people we seized in Irbil Jan. 11th.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>m,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been checking Sky News. They seem to always have the video first.</p>
<p>The Independent story, as bombastic as it is, may be correct on one point. The purpose of the kidnapping may indeed be to secure the release of the five &#8220;diplomats&#8221; seized in Irbil by the US on January 11th. Of course these guys were in Iraq to undermine the US and assist in the import of EFPs, 50 cal sniper weapons and other munitions causing serious harm to US and UK troops.</p>
<p>Two UK soldiers have been killed by a sniper in the last week. If he&#8217;s caught, he&#8217;s likely to be using a rifle purchased by Iran and smuggled into Iraq by the sort of people we seized in Irbil Jan. 11th.</p>
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		<title>By: m in the UK</title>
		<link>http://www.verumserum.com/?p=979&#038;cpage=1#comment-33916</link>
		<dc:creator>m in the UK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 16:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.verumserum.com/?p=979#comment-33916</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll just add John - that SKY NEWS (UK) has probably followed the best and most balanced line on this of any media outlet (BBC included).

Tim Marshall&#039;s analysis has (as usual) been top class - seeing exactly what has been going on in the region.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,31100-1010194,00.html

He hasn&#039;t been biased - merely telling the objective truth as he sees it. For this reason - I listen to Tim Marshall (rather than even just &quot;Sky News&quot; - this individual does know what he&#039;s talking about, and offers straight forward opinion that doesn&#039;t go to far - if he doesn&#039;t know something he says so).


However, the BBC in my opinion has followed a &quot;pandering&quot; line - one that has pandered to the Iranian-theocracy.People making unqualified statements - and inviting on obvious activists for the Iranian regime (something Sky News also has done - but the points have usually been challenged in the main).

But that is not unexpected - from a news room that is known to have a &quot;picture of Bush equated to Hitler&quot; posted on one of it&#039;s desks...

The BBC has lost something over the past 10 years. I do not doubt that this will come back to how it probably should be before long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll just add John &#8211; that SKY NEWS (UK) has probably followed the best and most balanced line on this of any media outlet (BBC included).</p>
<p>Tim Marshall&#8217;s analysis has (as usual) been top class &#8211; seeing exactly what has been going on in the region.</p>
<p><a href="http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,31100-1010194,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,31100-1010194,00.html</a></p>
<p>He hasn&#8217;t been biased &#8211; merely telling the objective truth as he sees it. For this reason &#8211; I listen to Tim Marshall (rather than even just &#8220;Sky News&#8221; &#8211; this individual does know what he&#8217;s talking about, and offers straight forward opinion that doesn&#8217;t go to far &#8211; if he doesn&#8217;t know something he says so).</p>
<p>However, the BBC in my opinion has followed a &#8220;pandering&#8221; line &#8211; one that has pandered to the Iranian-theocracy.People making unqualified statements &#8211; and inviting on obvious activists for the Iranian regime (something Sky News also has done &#8211; but the points have usually been challenged in the main).</p>
<p>But that is not unexpected &#8211; from a news room that is known to have a &#8220;picture of Bush equated to Hitler&#8221; posted on one of it&#8217;s desks&#8230;</p>
<p>The BBC has lost something over the past 10 years. I do not doubt that this will come back to how it probably should be before long.</p>
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		<title>By: m in the UK</title>
		<link>http://www.verumserum.com/?p=979&#038;cpage=1#comment-33909</link>
		<dc:creator>m in the UK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 15:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.verumserum.com/?p=979#comment-33909</guid>
		<description>John,

No one I know blames the US. The Independent&#039;s headline is apocrypha at best.

It certainly follows the anti-US line the paper follows anyway - as such due to it&#039;s political activist-like behaviour I view it&#039;s stories with a high degree of suspicion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>No one I know blames the US. The Independent&#8217;s headline is apocrypha at best.</p>
<p>It certainly follows the anti-US line the paper follows anyway &#8211; as such due to it&#8217;s political activist-like behaviour I view it&#8217;s stories with a high degree of suspicion.</p>
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		<title>By: m in the UK</title>
		<link>http://www.verumserum.com/?p=979&#038;cpage=1#comment-33908</link>
		<dc:creator>m in the UK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 15:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.verumserum.com/?p=979#comment-33908</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve slightly shifted my view - to view this more LONG TERM... strategy-wise based on this:


The issue is and something I recently recalled… on watching “the latest” propaganda - with the guys pointing to the maps…. (edited - with obvious prompting).

Also - on reading Robert Fisk’s IDIOTIC - The Independent headline today…

This isn’t a national humiliation. Not at all. This is something we (Britain) should bear in mind for future.

This is a great reminder - for us Britain not to show HUBRIS..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

“Hubris or hybris (Greek ὕβρις), according to its modern usage, is exaggerated self pride or self-confidence (overbearing pride), often resulting in fatal retribution. In Ancient Greek hubris referred to actions taken in order to shame the victim, thereby making oneself seem superior.”

Aristotle defined hubris as follows:
&quot;to cause shame to the victim not in order that anything may happen to you, nor because anything has happened to you, but merely for your own gratification. Hubris is not the
requital of past injuries; this is revenge. As for the pleasure in hubris, its cause is this: men think that by ill-treating others they make their own superiority the greater.”


Britain must be careful to not allow itself to be drawn into a trap (at this stage). Even with superior technology. Indeed - Iran is currently embarked on a policy that embraces hubris… a great mistake for them in my view.

What we must do - is wait. Bide our time…. and when the dust settles, take remedial action - in a manner and at a time of our choosing.

Currently, Iran has the initiative. Lets wait awhile until Britain and her allies retake the initiative… Then we’ll hear the theocracy squeal…

If Britain is clever… time is on our side… remembering that a confrontation over the nuclear issue is potentially unavoidable. We should learn from this - and the nature of the Iranian-theocracy threat…

Iranian HUBRIS is the key here…

Not exactly without historical precendent …. in that area of the world… Rather than be cryptic - on this:

I suggest people read up on:
Aeschylus, The Persians (Persai), performed in 472 BC
The Persians focuses on the popular Greek theme of hubris…. by blaming Persia’s loss on the overwhelming pride of its king at the Battle of Salamis….

All quite ironic really given some vocal Iranian complaints over a recent Hollywood film… John has kindly highlighted by Leonidas.

The clever thing is to not go wading in... but to wait until conditions become right for us to do something about this.

Sun Tzu would confirm I am sure the folly of initiating things without the conditions for action to be right and in our favour!

Iran has made a mistake with this. International opinion can see what this is - this is the crucial point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve slightly shifted my view &#8211; to view this more LONG TERM&#8230; strategy-wise based on this:</p>
<p>The issue is and something I recently recalled… on watching “the latest” propaganda &#8211; with the guys pointing to the maps…. (edited &#8211; with obvious prompting).</p>
<p>Also &#8211; on reading Robert Fisk’s IDIOTIC &#8211; The Independent headline today…</p>
<p>This isn’t a national humiliation. Not at all. This is something we (Britain) should bear in mind for future.</p>
<p>This is a great reminder &#8211; for us Britain not to show HUBRIS..<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris</a></p>
<p>“Hubris or hybris (Greek ὕβρις), according to its modern usage, is exaggerated self pride or self-confidence (overbearing pride), often resulting in fatal retribution. In Ancient Greek hubris referred to actions taken in order to shame the victim, thereby making oneself seem superior.”</p>
<p>Aristotle defined hubris as follows:<br />
&#8220;to cause shame to the victim not in order that anything may happen to you, nor because anything has happened to you, but merely for your own gratification. Hubris is not the<br />
requital of past injuries; this is revenge. As for the pleasure in hubris, its cause is this: men think that by ill-treating others they make their own superiority the greater.”</p>
<p>Britain must be careful to not allow itself to be drawn into a trap (at this stage). Even with superior technology. Indeed &#8211; Iran is currently embarked on a policy that embraces hubris… a great mistake for them in my view.</p>
<p>What we must do &#8211; is wait. Bide our time…. and when the dust settles, take remedial action &#8211; in a manner and at a time of our choosing.</p>
<p>Currently, Iran has the initiative. Lets wait awhile until Britain and her allies retake the initiative… Then we’ll hear the theocracy squeal…</p>
<p>If Britain is clever… time is on our side… remembering that a confrontation over the nuclear issue is potentially unavoidable. We should learn from this &#8211; and the nature of the Iranian-theocracy threat…</p>
<p>Iranian HUBRIS is the key here…</p>
<p>Not exactly without historical precendent …. in that area of the world… Rather than be cryptic &#8211; on this:</p>
<p>I suggest people read up on:<br />
Aeschylus, The Persians (Persai), performed in 472 BC<br />
The Persians focuses on the popular Greek theme of hubris…. by blaming Persia’s loss on the overwhelming pride of its king at the Battle of Salamis….</p>
<p>All quite ironic really given some vocal Iranian complaints over a recent Hollywood film… John has kindly highlighted by Leonidas.</p>
<p>The clever thing is to not go wading in&#8230; but to wait until conditions become right for us to do something about this.</p>
<p>Sun Tzu would confirm I am sure the folly of initiating things without the conditions for action to be right and in our favour!</p>
<p>Iran has made a mistake with this. International opinion can see what this is &#8211; this is the crucial point.</p>
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